Antony Blinken on National Cybersecurity and an Evolving State Department
Released on 09/03/2024
They're engaged, for example, right now
in an extensive expansion of their nuclear program,
the highest end chips.
We want to make sure that China is not able to acquire those
and then feed them directly into its military program.
Wired sat down with US Secretary
of State Antony Blinken
to talk about emerging technology and cybersecurity.
This is The Big Interview.
[upbeat dramatic music]
Mr. Secretary, thanks so much for sitting with us today.
Great to be with you.
I want to ask you a little bit about the way
that you have prioritized cybersecurity
at the Department here.
Last July, of course, the State Department was the one
that actually discovered the Chinese intrusion
of Microsoft systems, which for those of us
who cover cybersecurity, was shocking
that the State Department would be the originator
of discovering an event.
It was a a little surprising for me too,
both a pleasant surprise
because I was very proud of the fact
that we have remarkable people
in place who are able to do that.
But of course, when you have any kind of cyber intrusion,
it's a deep concern,
and it's an ongoing concern for the government.
It's exactly why we tried to make this department,
among other things fit for purpose
when it comes to cybersecurity.
One of the things that you have done is create
this new cybersecurity bureau
with Ambassador Nate Fick.
I wonder if you could talk a little bit
about the effort to build, not digital sovereignty,
but digital solidarity.
Look, what we've seen, what I've seen since coming back
to the State Department three
and a half years ago, is that everything happening
in the technological world
and in cyberspace is increasingly central
to our foreign policy.
It's central because we see extraordinary possibility
and actually making a difference on critical issues
that matter to people around the world matter
to our own people, whether it's health,
whether it's education, whether it's climate.
We also see the vulnerabilities and the dangers.
We know that what's happening at home
and what's happening around the world
are increasingly connected, so we wanted to make sure
that we're taking account of that
in the way we set ourselves up, the way we attract talent,
and the way we conduct our diplomacy.
There's almost a perfect storm.
Several major developments
that have really brought this to the forefront
of what we're doing and what we we need to do.
First, we have a new generation of foundational technologies
that are literally changing the world all at the same time.
So whether it's AI, whether it's quantum,
whether it's microelectronics, biotech, telecoms,
they're having a profound impact,
and increasingly their conversion
and feeding off of each other.
Second, we're seeing that the line between the digital
and physical worlds is evaporating, erasing.
We have cars, we have ports, we have hospitals
that are huge, in effect, data centers
with so much information being generated
or coming in, big vulnerabilities,
and at the same time, we have increasingly rare materials
that are critical to be able to advance technology,
and fragile supply chains.
In each of these areas,
the State Department is taking action.
And then finally,
we have to look at everything in terms
of stacks, the hardware, the software, the talent
and the norms, the rules, the standards
by which this technology are used.
All of this is coming together.
And the bottom line is our country
has to be at the height of competitiveness
if we're going to make sure that we're covering
all of these areas and making sure
that we're maximizing the good
and minimizing the bad.
This administration has made extraordinary investments
as you know, in our technology.
The Chips and Science Act,
the so-called Inflation Reduction Act,
which is the biggest investment in climate technology
in history.
And between the public
and the private, we've generated three
and a half trillion dollars of investment.
It's an incredibly powerful thing
because countries see the investments we've made
in ourselves, in our own competitiveness,
and they wanna work with us.
So I wanna make sure that we have the diplomats
who are trained, and able not only to engage,
but to lead all of these conversations around the world.
We've now trained more than 200 cybersecurity
and digital officers, people who are genuinely expert,
and that means every one of our embassies
around the world will have at least one person
who is truly fluent in tech and in digital policy.
My goal is to make sure that across the entire Department,
we have basic literacy, ideally fluency,
and even eventually mastery.
Your tenure here at Value Bottom has coincided
with what feels like the fracturing of the dream
of the global internet, and we've begun
to see the splintering into
a European regulatory web,
authoritarian regimes, using the internet
as a surveillance tool overseas.
Of course, we've seen this played out in US policy
on Huawei and TikTok.
I wonder if you could talk a little bit about your view
of the future of the internet.
Ideally, we don't have that fracture,
and certainly that would be the preference,
and we've done a number of things actually to try
to move in another direction, to try
to build broad consensus on the way technology is used,
because these rules, these norms, these standards,
that's absolutely critical
and the conversations about this often happen
in windowless rooms,
maybe at the UN, maybe halfway around the world.
Not only are we at the table, we want
to be at the head of the table.
Lemme give you an example.
On AI, we had incredible work done
by the White House to develop basic principles
with the foundational companies that were engaged in this,
the voluntary commitments that they made.
The State Department went out
and has worked to basically internationalize
those commitments, those principles.
We have a G7 Code of Conduct,
the leading democratic economies of the world, all agreeing
to basic principles with a focus on safety.
We managed to get the very first resolution ever
on artificial intelligence
through the United Nations General Assembly,
192 countries also signing up to basic principles on safety,
and a focus of using AI
to advance sustainable development goals.
These are the goals that the entire world has set to try
to move the world forward on things
like health, education, climate.
And we also have more than 50 countries
that have signed on to basic principles
on the responsible military use of AI.
So the goal here is not to have a world
that is bifurcated in any way.
It's to try to bring everyone together.
Having said that, you're right.
There are areas where, of course,
we're an intense competition with other countries,
and if we can't come together on rules
that make sure that we're elevating the good
and minimizing the bad, well, we have
to make sure we're protecting our values
and protecting our interests.
For example, when it comes to the highest end technology,
say the highest end chips that we have, we want to make sure
that a country like China is not able to acquire those
and then feed them directly into its military program.
They're engaged, for example, right now
at an extensive expansion of their nuclear program.
Very opaque.
It's not in our interest
to have the highest end technology
we have go right into that.
Also, technology is unfortunately used to repress people,
surveillance, repress their human rights.
We wanna make sure our technology's not used for that,
but as we've said, we wanna make sure that
as we're protecting, as opposed to promoting technology,
we're doing it in a way that has
the smallest possible yard,
along with the highest possible fence.
Because broadly speaking,
we want technology to get out there.
We see it profoundly as a source for good, for progress.
We wanna make sure it's shared widely and broadly,
and this is this notion of solidarity.
We want to be collaborating, cooperating,
working with other countries,
building capacity, sharing knowledge,
helping everyone solve these common problems,
but for discreet parts of the ecosystem, we have
to make sure we're protecting.
We have to have supply chains
that are not only resilient, but are diversified
so we're not dependent on any one place
for any critical input.
We went through COVID, we saw where that can lead.
We don't wanna see the same thing on critical technology.
So the goal, the hope
is to develop the broadest possible consensus,
but in certain areas, if we have to.
Yes, we're gonna make sure that we're well protected.
Let me ask you also about Russia
and ransomware, the another issue
that has defined your tenure
and the Biden Administration's national security agenda over
the last couple of years.
Is there more that the United States
and the Western Alliance could be doing to push Russia
to be a better actor online?
Or do you see this as an intractable problem going forward?
Look, it's an ongoing challenge,
and the invasion of Ukraine happened.
It's obviously made the entire relationship
much more difficult than it already was,
and so I think unfortunately there probably limits
as to what we we can achieve.
Having said that, we're also working
increasingly collaboratively,
not only with the private sector,
but also with other countries to develop common strategies,
to develop common approaches, to build solidarity there.
Because so many countries are afflicted
with the scores of ransomware.
We're sharing information, we're sharing best practices,
and we're looking at what kind
of collective action can be taken to deter
and disincentivize those who might be engaged in ransomware
or those who are supporting.
Mr. Secretary, thanks so much for sitting
with Wired for the big interview.
Great to be with you, Gary. Thank you.
[upbeat dramatic music]
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